Monday, March 13, 2006

Over my F*n' Dead Body

BILL NAPOLI: When I was growing up here in the wild west, if a young man got a girl pregnant out of wedlock, they got married, and the whole darned neighborhood was involved in that wedding. I mean, you just didn't allow that sort of thing to happen, you know? I mean, they wanted that child to be brought up in a home with two parents, you know, that whole story. And so I happen to believe that can happen again.

FRED DE SAM LAZARO: You really do?

BILL NAPOLI: Yes, I do. I don't think we're so far beyond that, that we can't go back to that.

As Napoli further explains, the ideal is getting back to the "Wild West" shot-gun weddings of his childhood, where no couple engaged in premarital sex without "the whole darn neighborhood" forcing them into wedlock. "You just didn't allow that sort of thing" -- that would be extra-marital sex going unpunished by the community -- "to happen...And I happen to believe that can happen again. I don't think we're so far beyond that that we can't go back to that." We're a little closer already this week.”

Okay. Mayberry and Beaver Cleaver never existed.
Those are FICTION!!!

The era of the shot-gun wedding was a nightmare for women.
There was no birth control.
There was no socially acceptable escape from a bad marriage.
A woman could easily end up married to her abuser.
Most often, if you went out with a guy, forced sex wasn't considered date rape because you "chose" to go out with him. Obviously you were an evil seductress who was trying to trap him with a baby. (even if you were 12-13-14 years old)
There was no true socially acceptable escape from a bad marriage.
Women, when divorcing, seldom got to keep their children because a woman getting a divorce was obviously a "bad" woman who was considered to be defying God's law by abandoning her family and therefore wouldn't be a good mother.
And all women were either the Virgin or the Whore.
Any need for an abortion had to be taken care of in backstreet disease infested hell holes where women sometimes had to provide sex before the procedure. Women sometimes died or were left sterile. It didn't matter if the need was created by rape, incest or immaculate conception. Women in that position automatically fell into the whore catagory and therefore had no right to anything, much less respect.

And "if" you should escape the marriage with custody of your child/children, there were few choices for supporting yourself. Teacher, nurse, waitress, whore. (With the exception of most teachers, those careers, at that time, didn't require a college education. Normally only daughters of wealthy liberals had access to higher education.) And, of the four choices, the only one with a decent chance to make any real money was whore. (And that was only if you were really good looking.) Most women didn't leave a marriage already trained as a teacher or nurse. Outside of marriage it was very difficult to have the time for, much less afford, the training while supporting yourself and a child. (There were no Pell Grants and Financial Aid for college) And... as a divorcee any guy you went out with would expect you to put out because, "Hey, baby. It's not like you haven't done it before." (You were still the whore.) Actually widows heard that a lot, too. Once you were used, you weren't worth much.

Men, also, were never seriously pursued by law enforcement for child support payments. All to often, you were completely on your own financially.

Society and the legal establishment looked the other way when it came to issues of child abuse and domestic violence. It was a "family matter" after all.

Do we really want to go back to that?

Do We Really?


Anonymous Anonymous said...


There's nothing I need to add because you've said it perfectly, Betty.

9:34 PM CST  
Blogger Betty S said...

I've heard more people talking about wanting to return to the "good old days" like they were replicas of Andy Griffin, Mayberry, Leave it to Beaver, and Happy Days. Are people's memories so short. Or is everyone getting their history off of television.

I'm starting to get nervous.

11:09 PM CST  
Blogger Seth said...

I have to agre completely... bullshit this guy is an asshole

11:46 PM CST  
Blogger Heather Dawn Harper said...

He is a scary, ignorant man.

I don't want to the governnment to be the morality police.

I do believe it should be mandatory for the pros and cons to be disclosed to the patient. I don’t believe the negative physical and emotional consequences are not given fair representation. This is the part of "abortion on demand" that I think is not responsible. I think it is unfair for women not to be given the opportunity to make informed decisions.

I'm a feminist who is for life. We should have the right to choose, BUT we shouldn't be forced into that choice because our society has little respect for the needs of a woman.

6:20 AM CST  
Blogger Heather Dawn Harper said...

I'm out of coffee this morning, can you tell?

"are not given" should be
"are given"

6:52 AM CST  
Blogger Betty S said...

I think the pros and cons should be discussed with patients on "any" medical procedure. It's my body and I don't want any surprises.

I would like to know more about why women/girls are still getting pregnant. Abortions aren't painless and most women don't want one unless they feel they have to. If women were truely using it as their form of birth control you would see more women having one every few months and that just isn't happening.

I think the source of the problem isn't that they are having abortions. It's that they are getting pregnant in the first place. From the standpoint of women's health, I think it is an important issue that needs to be addressed.

8:04 AM CST  
Blogger Betty S said...

You're right, Seth. It is tremendously faulty thinking. Talk about setting people up for bad marriages, and pushing society into even higher divorce rates.

The same group of religious extremists who think like this man are also behind not allowing pharmacies to give out birth control pills, and would like birth control available only to married women. Talk about a recipe for social disaster.

8:09 AM CST  
Blogger Heather Dawn Harper said...


8:10 AM CST  
Blogger Heather Dawn Harper said...

“When a man steals to satisfy hunger, we may safely conclude that there is something wrong in society—so when a woman destroys the life of her unborn child, it is an evidence that either by education or circumstances she has been greatly wronged.”

-Mattie Brinkerhoff

Feminism isn't a bad word.
Liberal isn't a bad word.
Conservative isn't a bad word.

Bill Napoli is a bad word.

9:03 AM CST  
Blogger Rinda Elliott said...

__Feminism isn't a bad word.
Liberal isn't a bad word.
Conservative isn't a bad word.

Bill Napoli is a bad word. __

Oh, I like you. You need to come back to OK so we can be great friends. (grin)

Betty, you and I are always in sync. Well said, lady!

10:01 AM CST  
Blogger Michele said...

Do we want to go back there?
Nope, no way. Not EVER!
Obviously this guy feels a little threatened by our gains. Which we are entitled to.
This man is delusional. The sad thing, there are some people taking his delusions seriously. THAT has me worried.

If his views are a product of TV fantasy... he needs to update his viewing habits. Quick!

6:34 PM CST  
Blogger Betty S said...

I think a lot of people nowdays do get their history from movies and TV because they don't read non-fiction.

My daughter's history teacher, her last year of high school, played a movie a week. It usually took up 2 of the 5 days. He would quote things as fact that were absolutely bogus. Fortunately, our family enjoys history and Jenn knew better than to believe a lot of the pure crap he was teaching. And the reason for this abomination that was being passed off as history? He was a coach and didn't have time for lesson plans. Let me tell you, his salery was a lot of taxpayers money down the tube. (I wasn't able to get much support from the school because sports is a big deal and they are champions in just about everything. I guess that says something about their priorities.) I will say this, everytime he said something stupid, Jenn would leave a note on his desk with historic references explaining why he was wrong. Most parents with kids in that class had no idea the crap they were being taught as history.

8:06 AM CST  
Blogger Dana Pollard said...

I sure as heck don't want to go back to those days. We've come too far to ever think about retreat.

I look at it this way: God gave us the right to choose. We should have that right on earth no matter what some man says.

Heather, come on over. The coffee is ready! :) hehe And bring Betty and Rinda, ok? Don't forget Bonnie!!!!

Ok, Heather has CRS (can't remember um, stuff) so y'all better show up on your own. Open invitation to everyone.

8:38 AM CST  
Blogger Heather Dawn Harper said...



9:36 AM CST  
Blogger Betty S said...

The governor signed it into law with "NO" exceptions for rape or incest. It can only be performed if you can prove the mother would die.

2:02 PM CST  
Blogger Kelli McBride said...

The fact is that abortion is not primarily used as a birth control method. The statistics show that abortion numbers go up in times of economic hardship. During Clinton's presidency, which supported pro-choice, abortion numbers declined. Since Bush has been in office and our economy has declined with our integrity and standing in the world, abortion numbers have started rising again.

Imagine: you're single, pregnant for whatever reason, with no family support. You work a minimum wage or low paying job with NO HEALTH BENEFITS. You cannot afford to go to a doctor to take care of yourself, much less a fetus/baby. And, you can't afford to take off from work to care for the baby. You have no one to help you look after a child, and you cannot afford day care. How in the world are you going to survive? Adoption as an option? Well, that's great if you're white. But few people want to adopt children from minorities (unless they come from China or Ukraine - sheesh people, what about all the kids in America that need foster homes and parents? Take care of our own!).

So the biggest myth about abortion, IMHO, is that it is an act of birth control or that women choose it capriciously. It is a sad reflection of the hard choices women have to make just to survive.

The other biggest myth is that outlawing abortions will stop them. No. The rich will simply leave the country to have it done, or pay their doctor well to do it privately. And the poor will be the ones dying in back alleys, bathrooms, and dirty clinics.

5:38 PM CST  
Blogger Betty S said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

9:53 PM CST  
Blogger Betty S said...

Your right Kelli. It was always the poor who suffered most. Women would do anything--clorox & coat hangers, OD'ing with laxatives, douching with coke, you name it. Or usually a combination. It was horrid. And it is more of a racial and economic issue than anything else.

I use to run an adoption agency for the Methodist Church and I can tell you from first hand experience, adoption isn't the perfect solution that it is touted to be either. People only want the "perfect" white baby. Infants born with defects, on drugs, or of color are very hard to place, except with families who can't afford to pay their medical expenses (which in those special cases can really add up) or Pervs, or People who want to collect welfare money. And... quite often the scum of the earth will apply to adopt children. I can tell stories that will make you puke. Many families that I turned down would go to the state and get place with a child relatively easily. And...everytime there is a child abused, murdered or killed you get a flood of birth mothers calling in tears to see if you will tell them if that was their child. (It had the same eyes, nose, hair, or it was just a feeling) It is like they are living in a hellish torture. And... adoptive parents frequently view the birth mother as the enemy, or immoral, or somehow emotionally defective because she would give away her child. It's a lousy arrangement. I would never want a child of mine adopted without me personally being able to select and get to know the family, otherwise it's a crap shoot. On television and in books, you only hear the happy stories. Many are not that happy.

10:00 PM CST  
Blogger Betty S said...

Remember the movie "Baby Boom" with Diane Keaton and Sam Shepard? There is a scene in there where she takes the baby to an adoption agency to be place with what sounds like a wonderful adoptive family. In the movie it was a funny scene. In real life it is not so funny. And as long as people like that otherwise qualify, children are placed with them.

*(have you noticed that when you can't type in the correct word verification letters, it comes back with a new set that are larger and shorter?)

10:40 PM CST  
Blogger Heather Dawn Harper said...

This isn't an easy issue with easy solutions.

There are many doctors who believe abortion is not health care. This may seem extreme to some, but then you have doctors on the other end of the spectrum who could give a crap less about any negative side effects of these procedures.

I wish more doctors looked at their patients as a whole person.

I know too many women who struggle with grief, attempt suicide, and just can't seem to ever reconcile that they had an abortion.

I support choice, but I can't support a movement that encouarges abortion at the cost of ignoring responsible decision making. We aren't talking about downgrading a cable package in an effort to be fiscally responsible. We are talking about a life altering decision for a woman, and a life ending act for a child.

My life hasn't been a white-picket-fence Harlequin novel, but I'm thankful I'm here.

My views on abortion are from a direct result of its aftermath.

With that said, I still think Bill Napoli is an Asshat.

8:19 AM CST  
Blogger Betty S said...

The attitudes of doctors is a whole 'nuther blog topic. Talk about a hot button issue for me. I get so sick of going in and feeling like I'm intruding on their time for more important things like golf and playing with their investments.

Somedays I feel like money is the only thing that motivated some of them to practice medicine in the first place.

10:20 AM CST  

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